I knew it would happen and it has. Sat. when my brother from CA was at my parent's Mom had a 3 hr. episode, throwing things, bit my dad on the shoulder leaving a large bruise, scratched my dad, threw a beer can and hit my brother in the head, tried to break the front door windows with salt and pepper shakers, hitting and screaming.

Then again yesterday when my dad was alone in the morning she threw both phones, things off the kitchen counter, broke a glass. Dad finally picked her up and placed her in a chair and when he went to call me she flew into a rage and I only heard my dad calling my name, her screaming, him saying "HELP" and then the phone went dead. Needless to say I got there very quickly with 2 of my older children, and she was pretty calm then, even apologized. BUT, when Dad gets up and tries to go to work on the house, she starts in saying I am trying to get her husband and all kinds of sarcastic uglies. She refused to take her medication all Sat. and Sun., I think Dad got her to take it Sun. night only. We finally got a valium in her, which was the first time for that, and it worked wonderful. Took her to the Dr. and got checked for UTI, nope, no UTI. I did ask them to culture it as well.

I called this morning with fear and trembling lest the phone call cause a problem, and it did, she started yelling and saying she was going to leave. Dad called me later when she was asleep and said the upset was short lived thankfully. He is still having a terrible time with her taking the meds.

I got an appt. to meet with the Dr. on Fri. to discuss how to medicate without over medicating to keep her under control. She is so very unhappy and I don't know how much more of this violence my dad can handle. I know I've cried a lot since Sat.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for being there,

~Kelly~

The only advice I can give you, will be very difficult for you to do. The next time your mom gets violent like that, you might want to call the police. They can have her admitted to a psych ward to get her meds adjusted. I know this would just break your heart to do this but you may not have a choice. I am so sorry you have to deal with this.

kelly:
I went thru this with my mom....I know they say "psych ward" and those words alone are scary....don't fear them! It is horrid initally but I truly thank God that mom ended up there....she ended up staying there for two months--and they did get her on some zombie drugs but for the sundowning (and please please rememeber sundowning doesn't just start late afternoon---) I didn't like mom on the drugs but with the options....
mom also developed diabetes in March and really had a fit at the hospital and for someone not used to anything really strong (she hated pills and fought me tooth and nail every day about them) it took alot to sedate her---they even had to tie her down...she pulled out ivs and everything!

Mom did hit and thought it perfectly okay since I was her child....no big deal. There were times she would even say I started it and that I actually hit her---(oddly enough I had the bruises--go figure!) It does take a lot to remember it is only the disease....this was when I started wearing the WWJD to help me with the mantra "its the disease"---I was also prepared to make the call several times when she was throwing hitting and fighting with me---I even had my daughters prepared to what needed to be done if I called the police--(make sure they could hear what was going on...) Sadly I am the only child of hers that got that these moods were the disease and not mom being mean--she couldn't control it and it has to be such mental anguish....hate the disease but loved mom...
I do recommend that you get some of the frustrations or questions you get here--most of the caregivers have gone thru similar things and they can also continue to insprie and help with what they did....and what meds work and which ones didn't...Mom died yesterday and I miss her and those moods...gone!

take care and good luck with doctor...

xxoo
karen

I never had to deal with violence, Kelly, and it must be such a strain for all of you. I'm glad you'll be speaking to her DR soon, as is sounds like some med changes are needed. My mom went through a period of agitation where she was very fidgety, trying to get up (no longer able to stand/walk at that point), stuck on a topic and impossible to redirect, etc. She was givien a very small dose of risperdal and things really smoothed out. So hopefully, there's something out there that will give your mom some peace from this unusual anger.

Dear Kelly,
I can only echo the above posts--don't be afraid to call in
authorities and get your Mom some real help. I know you
feel bad for her, but you also have your poor Dad and your
kids to consider. If they can just get her meds right, she will
be a lot more comfortable, too. What she is going through in
her own head right now must be pure torture.
Whatever you all decide, we are all here for you. Please
keep us posted.
Wishing you all the luck in the world--
Carol

Kelly, I don't have any words of advice and I wish I did. Please know I am thinking of you and am so sorry you are having to face this part of this painful journey with your mother and your dad. Whatever is decided, you must keep in mind that you are doing what is in her best interest and out of love for her and concern for her safety and well being as well as your dad's. Please know you have our support and prayers. Take care

Thank you everyone for your support and suggestions. Thank you especially Karen, I can't believe you took the time to write after just loosing your mother. Your insight was very helpful. Yes, the thought of psych ward does scare me a lot, this is my sweet mama that shouldn't have to be in a place like that, so thank you for the comfort and may God continue to comfort you in your time of grief.

I called Dad this evening and he said Mom has been like a zombie all day and he doesn't like it. He only gave her 2 valium at low doses the whole day. She woke while we were talking and she was whining and crying, so confused. We decided if she gives him trouble tomorrow morn. he will give her a half dose and see how that goes. We have to try to find a happy medium.

You know the thing with calling the police or calling an ambulance like the Dr.'s nurse suggested? I think that would be so hard on my dad because he can physically subdue her if he wanted, he is just afraid to hurt her in the process. I think he would feel like such a failure if he had to do that. We saw another Dr. yesterday for the UTI test and she gave me a prescription for Ativan in a shot and taught me how to do it. Yikes, the thought of it.

If anyone can give me suggestions on how to get her to take the pills that would be helpful.

I called a few Facilities that could possibly take her for respite care during the wedding if there is no other option. Ouch, that was painful.

I'm so thankful you all are there, you are wonderful,

~Kelly~

Hi Kelly, we've not spoken much, but I keep thinking that the right meds are "Key" of course, not sure that you must go to a pysc ward to get them right. I was also thinking could you crush them up, and mix them into applesauce, or somethng creamy like that? Have you tried low doses of Respirol, or Seroquel?(spelling) They don't always wrok, but when they do, seems like a miracle! If she is delusional, or hullucinating, that could really help.

If it makes you feel any better about giving her the shot, I just gave my Mom, her daily insulin injection, every morning, for 16 days. I was scared to death, and terribly afraid of needles, but I just thought, if this were my child, and it meant life or death, I could get over it, and i did. The first day I was timid, which made it worse, I had to commit, and feel self-assured. By day three, I was a pro! You can do this!!!! Can you hear my Pom Poms, swishing? LOL!

God speed for you & your poor Dad.

kelly:
with mom since she didn't want to take meds I would put the lorzapam in her coffee or whatever I could think of...I also think that they have it in liquid form that you may be able to administer to her in something/anything!---I know there were times when mom was in those frames that she didn't trust anything I did and I got caught a few different times---I even had to resort to using my ladies to help me if they got better chances to spike something she was drinking...we still laugh over one time when she was keeping such good eyes on me and one daughter just said "hey grandma theres a spider"--that distracted her so my daughter to put the pill in her coffee...I was always fearful of forgetting to collect the lorzapam and sending the girls to school accidently with it but they never did ---- always remembered to gather it up.

As for you dad holding down your mom....you'd be amazed how they can fight! Last March it took several people to hold down mom until they were able to restrain her and pray for the meds to kick in--and they gave her lots and it wasn't just the light stuff! I know when she attacked me in April she was still strong and it was hard to keep her down---and I get that throwing part...I had so much thrown at me! I do believe she would do this because she also knew that I got it that it wasn't her and wouldn't hold it against her---

I do mean it when I say don't fret the psych ward---it does sound worse than it is but I know it helped mom the most --- and they were so very good to her!

as for replying after losing mom...I'm trying to distract myself from old feelings that keep emerging from my sibs durin this time and wishing they felt this way when mom needed them --- instead they were angry and hateful...now they are devoted.....

take care

karen

Hi Kelly, I've had a lot of experience with the aggression and violence with my grandmother. One thing I can tell you is yelling at them, or even trying to talk them down usually doesn't work. In later stages the aggression can be a sign of them trying to tell you something, but expressing it in violence because of the frustration of not being able to explain it. In your mother's stage, I would say this is simply the disease process. I think it affects some more than others, and I believe it has to do with the severity of deterioration of the prefrontal cortex of the brain- the part deals with primal instinct and aggression. My grandmother would do everything from hitting, to breaking things. The worst part about it was that sometimes she forgot why she was upset, but remembered that she needed to be upset about something, so there really was no calming her down because we didn't know what her trigger point was. Sadly, the only thing that helped in her case was the medication, and Ativan does a great job. It can be quite a strong drug, stronger than Valium even, so watch the dosage especially if your mother is small and lightweight. Also, one more thing is that if you're going to give it via injection it is more than likely going to be given subcutaneously, which means you will get faster absorption but also the effects won't last as long. Not really sure why the doctor prescribed it in this form, maybe simply to get it on board quickly. Lastly, about the medication administration, the best thing that has worked for my grandfather has been crushing the medication into a fine powder using two spoons and then putting it in applesauce. The only problem I have with that is that you need to be careful with which medications you are doing this. Some medications are timed-release, and so if you crush them and give them at once they can be dangerous or ineffective. Good luck with this, and keep us posted on her response to the meds.

Hello all, I am humbled by your help, thank you.

I put applesauce on my list to buy today, we’ll give it a try. I’ve asked the Dr.’s about each medication to make sure it isn’t time released in case we need to crush it, so far none are. We tried Respirdol with horrible results, but she has been on Seroquel for about 2 months with good results for a while until it wears off. She has been delusional and hallucinating for a long time. She thinks we are trying to kill her. Thanks for the pom poms Sky, I need them, but you are right, I can do it!

Karen, your mom sounded so much like mine, we are always sneaking around trying to do what needs done. She is getting less observant now, but is distrustful of all of us. I will let my dad read your post to help him get used to the idea of the psych ward just in case, thanks for info. I prayed this morning that your sibs would behave themselves, and that you would be able to let it roll off your back. Easier said than done, I know!

Aitan, we too cannot figure out the trigger point. She talks about the violence after the fact and has actually said “I’m sorry.” But then she will say she had to do it. The Dr. gave us the injectable Ativan because she won’t take a pill in the middle of a rage, it would be the only way to stop her. Can you just see us trying to give her a shot in the middle of a rage???? I may end up hitting my dad with it for which he may be thankful!!!! Is subcutaneous in the muscle? That is how they told me to do it. Thanks for the warning on the strong Ativan, good to know. I’m sorry you and your family had to go through this, it is horrible.

Any other drugs I should consider? She is on Depakote which was the first thing we tried that helped with the out of control crying and anger. Then we added Seroquel after she grabbed the steering wheel on the freeway, about 2 months ago.

I’ll keep you posted,

~Kelly~

Hey Kelly, the only other drug that worked for my grandmother for all the psychiatric symptoms was Haloperidol (Haldol). I'm hesitant to tell you that it is a good drug to try. It did do the job in regards to the violence and the aggression, but it totally threw her off physically and mentally. She stopped talking a few weeks later, and was always in a haze. Her incontinence worsened too. Ask the psychiatrist or PCP if there is something that is a little less strong, but with the same therapeutic effect.

Okay, thanks Aitan, I remember when the Haldol did that to your grandmother.

My dad put 1/2 about 1 1/2 mg of Valium in Mom's oatmeal this morning and she wouldn't take her other meds. She starting getting worked up so he stopped trying to push it. Amber is there and said she only slept 1/2 hr. and has been so/so ever since. She wouldn't take the other meds for daughter either, hid them. Dad said to give her the whole 3 mg. at lunch time.

Talked to him about using a facility for the wedding, he said it is just not an option to take her. I told him she would want him to leave her and go to his grandson's wedding, just for 24 hrs. We both cried.

Karen, I told Dad what you said about the psych ward to prepare him in case.

Thanks everyone,

~Kelly~

Oh Kelly, I just now got a chance to come on, and was so sorry to hear about all this. You've gotten some wonderful suggestions from everyone. I've been reading and thinking, what would I do if this was my Mom. I have to honestly say I don't know.

We just never know what is the wrong or right thing to do until the time comes to do it. Follow your heart, and you'll know when you have to take more cautious measures. Having your father there is so much harder. His decision on things just will not be the same as yours. You love your Mom, but it is such a different love then your father has for her. Make sure you just keep reassuring him, and try to let him make most of the final decisions. Having a mother with AD is one thing, having a wife with it, has got to be so much more difficult. It must be tearing him apart to see all this.

Please know we're here for you, and support you in whatever you all decide. Each person has to make their decisions about their loved ones knowing that it's the best for them.

keep us updated, and God be with you!

jackie

kelly:
your experiences with your mom are so much like moms....mom started the sundowning early---11:00am most days....she didn't understand the anger but was always very appolgetic about them and embarrassed...during one episode I got over 30 calls asking aobut her car and name calling wishing she had never giving birth to me and inbetween calling 911 (not remembering she did so) but she had to have called and forgot she called it bizarre. There is no such thing as talking down their anger---I always stuck around since I was afraid she would stroke out since she had vascular dememntia. There were times I did place urget calls to social worker to see what all I could do...Washington is a horrid state to get anywhere --- you more or less have to wait until the state takes over or in our instance diabetes....
She did get to a point she didn't trust anything I gave her. this last month they had her on 250 mg of serequel 50 mg more than she should have just to control the delusions and anxiety she was going thru....they did try at the hospital halodol but that did NOTHING when they were trying to sedate that first night---only the ativan seemed to make a difference.
I did have to testify for mom the last time she was on the 72 hour psych hold and that was tough but you know this disease is horrid...(poa and bro basically told the doc it wasn't the disease that caused mom to react this way---she was just nasty & mean on her own) it is hard to deal with. I know I found the anger easier after a while and never held it against her but at the disease. It is important to focus on that factor so that all the good you know of your mom doesn't get in....again why I wore the WWJD braclet and mantra its just the disease......what has been a blessing is now I'm able to remember the good and not the bad.....I know the bickering we are currently doing over this funeral --- the things my sibs find morbid I just remember with humor....I learned it was just words from mom and without the boards and hearing others and how they dealt with it and being reassured that it was common....I truly believe the boards always helped me the most because I was able to inquire and gain knowledge....it has also helped with Tracy and hearing of what she goes thru---kind of first hand -- mom didn't want to fess up to the disease becuase it scared her and I really don't blame her there....
just remember its not your mom but the disease to find anger at....
karen